Trevor Wilson wrote:
> "Alan Rutlidge" <don't_spam_me_rutlidge@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:48119a57$0$1585$5a62ac22@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> news:67cp5jF2n8njcU1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> "TT" <TTencerNoSpAm@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>> news:y5-dnZUWq_zytYzVnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> "Iain Churches" <IainNG@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>> news:pn3Qj.341894$nH5.91115@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>
>>>>> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
message
>>>>> news:67b6orF2nkadkU1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trevor wrote to Atec:
>>>>>
>>>>>> * Your admission that you lied, is duly noted.
>>>>>> * Instead of presenting actual facts, you resort to rancour.
>>>>>> * Your inability to discuss anything logically and coherently is
duly
>>>>>> noted.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Trevor instead of all this "duly noting" you could serve
>>>>> mankind better by writing these ME manuals for
>>>>> which the world clamours :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Iain
>>>> Wouldn't it then be like "open source code" for software
applications?
>>>> Everyone could then see how they work, propose modifications,
upgrades,
>>>> tweaks etc and then there would be *free* product development.
>>>>
>>>> I would see it as win/win situation for customers and manufacturer
>>>> alike. I would envisage that PS and TW would actually get busier and
>>>> make more money because of it.
>>>>
>>>> Imagine how many idiots would start tinkering and let the smoke out
of
>>>> the box or buy relics off fleabay in the hope of repairing them
>>>> themselves?
>>>>
>>>> All this "Secret Squirrel" **** is a PITA IMHO. Please keep the
cloak
>>>> and dagger stuff for mystery novels? ;-)
>>>>
>>>> And from a purely selfish POV a very good product is going to end up
>>>> devaluing because no one will want it anymore :-(
>>>>
>>>> Also *IF* the manuals were available surely State (or OS) repairers
>>>> could be appointed and even, heavens forbid, actually create demand
for
>>>> new product and a new manufacturing facility could eventuate.
>>> **Let me re-state the situation:
>>>
>>> * Peter Stein is sup****ting and servicing products he manufactured. I
am
>>> servicing and sup****ting ME and other products.
>> No argument there Trevor, BUT this requires the non-technical customer
to
>> first find a local tech who is prepared to remove the faulty module,
then
>> the thing has to be sent to FNQ for repair and then replaced by the
local
>> tech.
>
> **Correct.
>
>> Let's just for one moment assume not everything goes a planned. A
module
>> suffers some miniscule phyiscal damage on return from PS and as a
result
>> an electrical fault develops.
>
> **What happens if you drive your car over a bumpy road, after taking it
to
> the local tech? There are a raft of questions, you could ask. OTOH, the
ME
> modules are well built and, IME (>25 years of freighting to Peter, via
> Aussie Post) none have ever developed a fault which can be identified as
> being attributable to freight damage. Of course, I have an IQ above room
> temperature and a good supply of bubble wrap. Pretty much any nong can
pack
> them correctly.
>
> The local tech fails to visually inspect the
>> module carefully on re-installation, and at switch on the "smoke gets
out"
>> or it creates another fault. Who accepts responsibility?
>
> **Tell you what: IF that ever occurs, I'll worry about it then. It may
> occur, but, in 25 years, it hasn't happened to me. I won't lose sleep
> worrying about something which appears to be a very remote possibility.
>
> Who pays for the
>> damage? This is a legal mindfield and you bloodly well know this. ME
has
>> now been exposed for its lack of sup****t do***entation.
>
> **On the contrary. The do***entation which comes with the amplifiers is
> comprehensive and very helpful. Did you note the flow charts?
>
> No tech in his
>> right mind is going to swallow up the cost of hours on the phone to PS
>> when the information could easily be gleaned from a service manual,
>> thereby minimising any misunderstanding9s).
>
> **I still fail to see what help a schematic would be to a tech. The
modules
> require carefully matched devices. This is well outside the capabilities
of
> all but the most well equipped workshops.
>
>>> * There are others who service and sup****t ME products.
>> I've asked yopu this question before and you've failed to reveal anyone
>> else other than PS and your good self.
>
> **Wrong.
>
>>> Due to the careful matching of semiconductors in all ME products,
>>> servicing the output stages by anyone other than PS (or his appointed
>>> successor/s) is a real bad idea.
>> Codswallop TW and you know it. If ME employees (and now PS on his own)
>> spent part of the production time sitting down with a transistor tester
>> hand grading semiconductors it deserves to have gone out of business.
And
>> to what tolerances are you suggesting anyhow?
>
> **All transistors in the amplifier stages are matched to within 1% for
hFE
> and Vbe. The resultant number is written on the top of the output
devices.
>
> This is just the same sort of
>> s**** oil bull**** Perreaux used to peddle and it has turned out to be
>> bull****.
>
> **I am unaware that Perreaux claimed such a thing. I'll take your word
for
> it. How would you suggest that I prove it to you that Peter does match
his
> devices?
>
>>> * Supplying schematics to anyone calling themselves a 'tech', in the
case
>>> of ME, may be a very bad idea. Techs who are unable to perform even
basic
>>> fault-finding, can end up doing far more damage to the amplifier.
>> Fully agree there TW, but if they don't know what they are doing and
the
>> smoke geats out than surely they need to accept they ****ed up.
>
> **Indeed they do.
>
>> I get this problem with idiots who think they know all about PCs,
except
>> it's the OS that gets out of wack and the system crashes. No physical
or
>> electrical damage but the loss of data can be just as, if not more
costly.
>>
>>> * In the case of most ME models, the output stages are modular in
format.
>>> This makes removal and replacement a quick, simple exercise. Peter
Stein
>>> (and his appointed successors) can effect service to those output
modules
>>> and the modules posted back, safely, inexpensively and easily.
Freighting
>>> amplifiers around the nation is not required. All that is required, is
a
>>> competent tech.
>> As I wrote earlier in this post. 3rd party liability issues if
something
>> goes wrong.
>
> **When I see such an instance, I'll let you know. I won't hold my
breath.
>
>> Who are the appointed successors?
>
> **Myself and David on the mid NSW coast.
>
>>> * I have seen many ME amplifiers which have been worked on by
incompetent
>>> techs. The result is not pretty, nor cheap to rectify.
>> Same here, but not nessecarily limited to ME.
>
> **Indeed. However, in one instance, the resulting mess cost the client
> $1,200.00 in fried output devices. For some reason, the tech removed all
the
> outputs. It wasn't necessary, since they were undamaged. He did not
secure
> them to the heat sink properly. The whole lot went up. On examination, I
> suggested that the customer approach the manager of the hi fi store he
> purcahsed the amp from and request the $1,200.00 be refunded to him. He
got
> his money.
>
>>
>>> * Poorly serviced ME amplifiers reflect badly on the product's
>>> reputation.
>> All the more reason to have full service do***entation available to
>> eliminate the guesswork.:P
>> A competent tech would heed to the do***entation oan follow the service
>> recommendation strategies.
>> If it says match Q25 to a certain gain range before replacing, this can
>> easily be done by any qualified service tech.
>
> **To secure a full set of matched output devices for an ME850 would
require
> approximately 10,000 transistors, in order to obtain suitable numbers of
> matched devices. Same deal with the preamps. In fact, I once met a guy
who
> claimed to have built an ME preamp, after Peter provided him with
> schematics. I challenged him on the point, knowing that it was
impossible.
> Then, he dropped the bombshell. He spent $1,500.00 on transistors, to
build
> what was then a $1,000.00 preamp.
>
>> The products reputation can't be harmed except (maybe) if it is ME580
>> Hi-Cap as this the is ONLY ME product still in production.
>> ALL the other ME amplifiers haven't rolled of the production line in
years
>> so in essence there is no reputation to protect.
>
> **The reputation is still there.
For market manipulation and silly prices for non gerrymandered repairs
, agreed
Peter cares about his customers and he
> cares about the products which are in the market.
bull****e , if he did then a manual would be made available at
affordable prices .
>
> Trevor Wilson
twevy your a twonk
>
>
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