Re: PIONEER RECEIVERS: Which One Do I Keep?

James a écrit :
> "Major Jocelyn" <majorj@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
> news:DvNUj.1523$zm2.8255@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> James a écrit :
>>> "Major Jocelyn" <majorj@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
>>> news:1OJUj.12433$HB2.6535@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> sgordon@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 a écrit :
>>> You need to learn more about the stk based amps.  And I was not
comparing 
>>> it to low end surround sound systems.  Many of which use switching
power 
>>> supplies and class d amps.
>>>
>>>
>> Yes but for the price of one of those low end surround receiver you can

>> get a great pre-1985 amp that will have a real power supply with real 
>> spec. Would you say that the Pioneer SX-A6-J is a "low" end at a retail
of 
>> 800$? At that price I can get an incredible piece of Vintage 
>> Amp/Preamp/(Cd Player or Turntable).
>>
>> Jocelyn
>> Proud Son of Leo Major, DCM & Bar
>> To know why I am proud go there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Major
> 
> You're right, you can get some of the high end vintage gear for $800.   
But 
> that pioneer sx-a6-j is available all day new for under $500.  It is a
class 
> ab amp and the specifications are in the users manual.  Would I buy one?

> Not likely.  It seems a bit over priced.  But it is xm radio capable and
has 
> an ir remote.  Two things that some people might consider a requirement.

> And it is going to be covered by a warranty.  Buying older gear is not 
> without drawbacks.  Often the power supply caps need replacing.  I'd go
so 
> far as to suggest that if you took 10 random vintage items off ebay you 
> would find that none of them were performing to the original
specifications 
> in a bench test.  A lot of people want to take it out of the box and not

> worry about those sorts of things.  And some people want surround sound.
> 
> As to the power supplies, switching power supplies are not technically 
> inferior to the old style power supplies.  Both can be built to deliver
the 
> appropriate level of power as needed by the equipment.  Any piece of
modern 
> equipment with a switching power supply is going to be a whole lot
lighter 
> that the traditional power supply because it does not need that big 
> transformer.  Your computer has one.  It's probably rated at 500 watts. 
It 
> really can deliver that much power even though it weighs next to
nothing. 
> To get 500 watts via a a 60hz transformer would take a huge transformer
that 
> weighed a ton.
> 
> None of which is my original point.  What I said was those pioneers and 
> other old gear using the stk amps were not particularly memorable.  The 
> specs you want to quote have nothing to do with pioneer.  Pioneer didn't

> make the amps, they took them off the shelf and soldered them in.  And
those 
> units are worth about $100 apiece at best on flea-bay.  And that is
mostly 
> because they are pioneer, not because their specifications are
particularly 
> better than comparable gear for the same era.
> 
> 
You're also right about the Pioneer SX-A6-J, my neighbour pay full price 
for this receiver and I found out that now you could even get it for 
400$. As for the Power Supply cap need replacing I faced this my Dynaco 
St-400 and my Quad 405. It was an easy job replacing the caps on each 
amp. I know that for lot of people this is to much trouble. But for me 
and several other at the french Vintage Forum 
http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/VideoSon/HiFi-HomeCinema/techniques-abandonnees-appareils-sujet_67751_1.htm
I also know that some (mainly the High Power gears) Pioneer are 
overpriced on Ebay and Audiogone except that you can find other brands 
that are simply excellent for a very reasonable price. Also several 
piece of vintage equipment that are being sold have been serviced by 
technician prior to the sale. Also one reason to buy vintage is 
Reliability. Lot of today's stuff come with a 90 days warranty. Why? As 
I wrote in a post before, I work as a Senior Salesman in a Hi-Fi Chain 
and lot of the receivers stop working properly after less that 2 years 
of use. I have seen Pioneer, Sony, JVC receivers that where dead after 6 
month. Concerning the Power Supply could you explain why the High End 
Amps and Reveivers sold today are still Using High Current Power Supply 
instead of switching one? The answer is simple Power reserve.Try 
listening to Mussorsky Night on Bald Montain CD with one of today 
high-end Reveiver then listen to it again with a receiver that use a 
switching PS. Just do the test: Go to any serious HI-FI store with this 
CD and ask the salesman if you can listen to it with say an Onkyo, 
Denon, Harman/Kardon,Rotel or even a High-End Pioneer and next try it 
with a regular Pioneer, JVC, or Sony and you will understand that these 
basic receivers will never reproduce this CD without puting tremendous 
amount of distortion because to go into clipping or even going in 
protect mode. Several of these basic receiver that have a switching PS 
are rated at say 100w per channel but with only ONE channle driven. Take 
for example the JVC RX-5060X 5 channel surround receiver. It is rated at 
100w per channel at 10% (Yes 10%) THD. But the real RMS power is 
20w/channel all channel driven and still at 10% distortion. If we reduce 
that THD to say 1% the RMS power drop to around 10W/Channel. The Sony 
STR-DG520 does a bit better job giving you 20w/channel at 1% THD. The 
Pioneer VSX-518-K give us a huge 24W/channel at 1% THD. Sorry but for 
the price of one of these basic Receivers I will instead go to a vintage 
one that will give me REAL RMS Power like 80W/Channel Both channel 
driven at 0.05% THD.

Jocelyn
Proud Son of Leo Major, DCM & Bar
To know why I am proud go there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Major