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Audio > High End Audio > Re: Do all ampl...
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Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?

by "c. leeds" <cleeds@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jan 5, 2008 at 04:08 PM

Arny Krueger wrote:

> One im****tant lesson of our early days with ABX (now 30 years ago) was
that 
> when auditioning modern non-acoustical gear, as most audiophiles and 
> reviewers do, biased or random results are *certain*.

Congratulations, Arny. You've changed a discussion about a preference - 
for listening to equipment before purchase - into an ABX discussion in 
one simple, illogical step.

> Both recordists and live sound professionals tend to use the word
audiophile 
> as a perjorative. Synonym with clueless and opinionated.

Whatever.

 > Choosing gear that can
> logically be expected to sound alike, based on a listening test is
certainly 
> nonsensical. 

But I never said that I did that. I simply said that I prefer to listen 
before I buy. This act of listening sure troubles a few of you on this 
group, but that's your problem. Some people buy a new car without 
driving it first, others buy clothes without tying them on. That's their 
preference.

> There is no rational reason to prefer one audio component over another
based 
> on sound quality when they cannot be distingushed based on sound
quality. 

That's the logical fallacy known as "begging the question."
 




 180 Posts in Topic:
Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steve <goldstarsteve@[  2007-12-24 10:32:44 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Randy Yates <yates@[EM  2007-12-25 16:39:58 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2007-12-26 10:57:17 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
bear <bearlabs@[EMAIL   2007-12-25 10:44:45 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2007-12-26 16:47:46 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2007-12-26 10:58:26 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Greg Wormald <greg.wor  2007-12-25 10:47:44 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2007-12-26 16:42:03 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2007-12-26 11:00:08 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2007-12-26 17:07:49 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"jeffc" <jef  2007-12-28 16:45:57 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Andrew Barss <barss@[E  2007-12-29 16:39:03 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"ScottW" <Sc  2007-12-29 16:47:23 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2007-12-30 16:57:50 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2007-12-31 17:19:12 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-01 16:30:56 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Serge Auckland"  2008-01-01 17:34:54 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-02 05:10:52 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"c. leeds" <  2008-01-02 23:58:06 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-03 00:44:58 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"c. leeds" <  2008-01-03 23:39:41 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-04 03:18:59 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"c. leeds" <  2008-01-05 16:05:02 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-03 00:47:10 
audio culture nonsense?
"c. leeds" <  2008-01-03 23:40:47 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-04 03:17:01 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-04 03:20:48 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"c. leeds" <  2008-01-05 16:02:35 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-05 18:50:42 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"c. leeds" <  2008-01-06 18:21:27 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-08 01:15:56 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-06 16:06:31 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-07 23:58:24 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-08 03:03:24 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-09 00:06:33 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-10 01:05:12 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-10 23:50:18 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-09 00:22:20 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-10 01:06:22 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
twinmountain@[EMAIL PROTE  2008-01-05 18:49:24 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-06 16:05:50 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Harry Lavo" &l  2008-01-06 18:22:25 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-07 23:46:59 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-08 01:12:57 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Serge Auckland"  2008-01-09 00:05:15 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-10 01:07:58 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Serge Auckland"  2008-01-11 00:13:02 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-11 23:41:29 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Serge Auckland"  2008-01-12 20:27:06 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-13 15:51:01 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Serge Auckland"  2008-01-14 04:38:20 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Alan Hoyle <alanh@[EMA  2008-01-11 00:14:07 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-09 00:09:59 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-09 00:21:43 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-08 01:05:18 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Harry Lavo" &l  2008-01-09 00:03:53 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-09 03:25:01 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-10 01:32:14 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-10 23:53:10 
Re: audio culture nonsense?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-06 16:07:01 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Harry Lavo" &l  2008-01-03 23:27:11 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-04 03:14:01 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-04 23:43:34 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"c. leeds" <  2008-01-05 16:07:25 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-07 23:49:03 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Serge Auckland"  2008-01-03 23:38:31 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-04 03:15:46 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-04 03:21:42 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-04 23:38:14 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Serge Auckland"  2008-01-04 23:48:44 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-05 03:36:44 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-05 15:40:44 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-06 16:08:19 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Serge Auckland"  2008-01-05 15:59:16 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-08 01:06:32 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-03 23:44:26 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-04 23:30:46 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-07 23:50:24 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-08 01:15:13 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-09 00:13:23 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-10 01:17:59 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-09 00:20:46 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"c. leeds" <  2008-01-05 16:08:27 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-03 00:01:30 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-03 00:00:32 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
jwvm <jwvm@[EMAIL PROT  2007-12-25 10:48:47 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2007-12-26 11:01:20 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2007-12-25 10:49:56 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2007-12-26 16:49:33 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"jeffc" <jef  2007-12-28 16:47:31 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2007-12-29 16:43:11 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-03 23:48:20 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
jwvm <jwvm@[EMAIL PROT  2007-12-27 16:34:49 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2007-12-29 16:36:59 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
dpierce.cartchunk.org@[EM  2007-12-27 16:45:41 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"jeffc" <jef  2007-12-28 16:46:47 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2007-12-29 16:36:24 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
bear <bearlabs@[EMAIL   2007-12-31 17:08:54 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Randy Yates <yates@[EM  2007-12-27 16:47:04 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
codifus <codifus@[EMAI  2007-12-27 16:47:53 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2007-12-29 16:25:40 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2007-12-30 16:52:02 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2007-12-31 17:22:07 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2007-12-31 19:04:35 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-03 23:50:20 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Signal <signal@[EMAIL   2007-12-28 16:38:54 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-03 23:49:15 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"jeffc" <jef  2007-12-28 16:45:18 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
dpierce.cartchunk.org@[EM  2007-12-28 16:59:42 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2007-12-30 16:55:28 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Randy Yates <yates@[EM  2007-12-29 16:39:32 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Randy Yates <yates@[EM  2007-12-29 16:40:05 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-03 23:46:15 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
willbill <trek@[EMAIL   2007-12-29 16:40:53 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2007-12-30 16:59:23 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
willbill <trek@[EMAIL   2008-01-01 16:18:45 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-01 20:23:32 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
willbill <trek@[EMAIL   2008-01-02 05:02:31 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-02 23:49:22 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
willbill <trek@[EMAIL   2008-01-04 23:49:31 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-08 01:07:36 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-08 03:02:51 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-09 00:14:01 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-10 01:04:07 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-11 00:02:17 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
dpierce.cartchunk.org@[EM  2007-12-30 16:53:03 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steve <goldstarsteve@[  2007-12-30 17:05:54 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"jeffc" <jef  2007-12-31 17:15:42 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
dpierce.cartchunk.org@[EM  2007-12-31 17:14:01 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
dpierce.cartchunk.org@[EM  2007-12-31 17:23:17 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-01 16:07:32 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Tynan Agvišr"   2007-12-31 17:25:26 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Randy Yates <yates@[EM  2008-01-02 23:48:28 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Randy Yates <yates@[EM  2008-01-05 03:39:17 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-05 15:55:43 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Randy Yates <yates@[EM  2008-01-06 18:22:58 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-07 23:53:21 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Steven Sullivan <ssull  2008-01-09 00:14:51 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-01-10 01:13:54 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-10 01:29:51 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-08 01:07:04 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Randy Yates <yates@[EM  2008-01-07 23:47:43 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"RobertLang" &l  2008-01-15 23:49:30 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-01-16 03:18:27 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Jim L'Hommedieu&quo  2008-03-27 22:49:14 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-03-28 20:36:08 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Norman M. Schwartz&  2008-03-29 02:17:33 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Robert Peirce <bob@[EM  2008-03-29 15:08:47 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-03-29 16:02:23 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-03-30 21:45:22 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-03-29 15:08:34 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"c. leeds" <  2008-03-30 21:44:21 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-03-31 00:39:27 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"c. leeds" <  2008-04-02 22:34:53 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-04-02 23:22:36 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"c. leeds" <  2008-04-03 22:08:55 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-04-04 01:44:58 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Norman M. Schwartz&  2008-04-05 00:45:26 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Dave" <dspe  2008-04-24 01:30:08 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-04-24 23:04:13 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"c. leeds" <  2008-05-04 14:37:08 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"c. leeds" <  2008-04-05 00:43:05 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-04-05 13:43:07 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Norman M. Schwartz&  2008-04-05 17:42:09 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-04-05 20:46:19 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-04-05 17:43:17 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-04-05 20:46:42 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
guido.neitzer@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-06 01:12:09 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-03-29 15:08:19 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-03-29 16:03:29 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-03-30 21:44:58 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
<normanstrong@[EMAIL P  2008-03-30 21:43:31 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-03-31 00:40:36 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-03-31 22:36:00 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Peter Elem <pelem@[EMA  2008-05-09 00:06:48 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-05-10 04:48:52 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"msexcel2003.com&quo  2008-05-11 02:29:47 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
"Arny Krueger"   2008-05-11 15:04:49 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
Sonnova <sonnova@[EMAI  2008-05-11 19:17:46 
Re: Do all amplifiers sound the same?
bob <nabob33@[EMAIL PR  2008-03-29 16:02:54 

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tan12V112 Fri Oct 10 15:29:01 CDT 2008.